General Education
At the beginning of my first full year at DSU, after listening to alot of people associated with Dakota State for about 9 months, I formulated and presented to the campus a "vision" statement titled "A Journey Worth Taking". This journey identified four visions that we have for all our students. It stated that DSU graduates would have:
1. Unsurpassed information technology knowledge
2. Exceptionally creative problem solving skills
3. A passion for learning
4. A pride in the institution.
Recently I have been thinking about how we continue to enhance the learning of our students so to even more clearly achieve these goals. I specifically was thinking about it when an employer of several of our graduates was extolling the virtues of one of the grads that worked for him. He indicated that he was one of those individuals that you could assign any problem to and he would figure out a creative and imaginative solution. What an incredible statement!
Now, it could clearly be that this student entered DSU with all these skills but I have to believe that his educational experience helped shape and expand his capabilities. I am fond of saying in public forums that Dakota State University is not about the business of "training technicians - it is about educating technologists". Individuals who use technology to creativly solve problems and invent solutions.
When I am confronted by a student who wants an explanation about why he or she (being a computer science major) should have to take a science course, a history course, a math course etc., I look at them and say because I want you to be able to think like a scientist, think like a historian and when you need to think mathmatically. I firmly believe that our general education curriculum does contribute to the problem solving abilities of our students. I think we all have been somewhat negligent when it comes to being clear with students about the links of these disciplines to this creative problem solving process. It has been too long and maybe I just wasn't paying attention but I don't remember anyone helping me understand what an incredibly important class my required "Arts and Ideas" - general ed class was. I wouldn't want to be 18 again but I would love to take that class now!
posted by DSU President at 3:26 PM
19 Comments:
I dont agree with you about the importance of gen-ed classes. From my experience, I didnt really gain any fundamental exuberance or knowledge from them; some were enlightening, but it's never knowledge to need, it's more times than none knowledge that's undistinguished.
Don't get me wrong, I fully understand your point, but I think you overstated your case, especially with your example. I dont think anyone in the world could have foreseen that you were going to have a need for that "Arts and Ideas" course in 2005/2006 (unless you know a really good tarrot card reader). I think the position you took had a demand for it and you happened to have some skill to fullfill otherwise you'd be just as clueless about it before you started your position.
At my position today in the workforce, I can hands down rule out all the gen-ed course work that I did and know which I can apply and which I will never apply (which is mostly all of it). I'm not going waltz into work tomorrow and decide to think like Albert Einstein today or apply the 'learns learned' from Custer's last stand so I can get my deadline met on a project I have due.
I'm a sole believer in common sense. You can have all the education you want under your belt; 4.0 all the way through your doctorate, manga cum whatever, but I'm going to surely bet if you dont have that fine degree in common sense, you'll never excel, no matter how much you prize those gen-eds.
Thats my 2 cents.
12:42 AM
I am in agreement with Mr. Soze. With my experience in the corporate world, managers are far more interested in what you know in your field and how you apply that knowledge to the problem; they don’t care about your 4.0 or 2.0. I would say getting more technical with in the field of study is far more valuable. I have seen employees with little or no college doing just fine; in fact I believe they are doing just as well as college graduates.
Within IT it comes down to experience, everybody wants experience when they hire new people. This is one of the most challenging obstacles to new graduates. Most employers do not like OJT. I thought I remember a proposal regarding a tech place where multiple companies where going to be housed and employee DSU students, what happened to that? Trying to get experience in SD is tough, nearly impossible. I would be addressing this issue, how can I the president get my students experience, good experience they can use. This would be a great advantage to DSU students.
An example would be to implement a 4 year work program doing 10-12 hours a week with a company, this would allow for experience. I would also like to see the Office of Career Services and Placement do more to help graduating students.
Just another 2 cents…
9:20 AM
I am sorry I don’t think I agree with either of you. General Education classes are a good thing. When we take these classes we get opportunities to work with other students and professors, we might not normally meet in our major study field. We get opportunities to learn how to write well informed researched papers, give speeches that make us think, dissect animals that may resemble how our systems work; and all of these things will make us better people. We need to know how to look things up, and form well educated opinion on a wide verity of topics.
If you do not know how to do math, English, science, and history, how will you help your children when they are learning it in school?
What will happen when you are at work and the company brings in new clients and they want you to design a web page about the paintings they sell? You will need to know something about the artists, and how the art community works.
Or say you get arrested, you know that you have certain rights, the right to a layer, to a speedy trial, to keep quiet, but if you don’t take a history/civics class how do you know what those rights are? Or why they are so important?
Needless to say I am all for Gen Ed classes. Besides if you are so smart you should be able to do fine in them. Hey it also makes you look smarter, and we all love smart people!
2:08 PM
Gen-ed classes are definately worth your while in the long-run. Not only do they make you a more "well-rounded" person they also give you a broader background of knowledge that can be applied in post-college careers.
For instance, a freelance web designer might be looking for a project and an employer needs a web site created about historical events and their significance today. With the knowledge gained from gen-ed classes, that designer could produce a more effective solution.
3:55 PM
"Well Rounded?" In what ways? You're amongst the many that just "repeat the same phrase" because it sounded good when the other guy said it.
You state a hoaky example about a free lance web designer. Ok, historical events? I guess if you tried to apply your Wellness/Exercise, Economics, Chemistry, Biology and Humanities class to just using common sense and using a dong something you did in 5th grade and use an encyclopedia set or library, then my hat's off to you for feeling you got your money's worth.
6:58 AM
I think one important issue to remember is that college, if possible, is geared toward preparing you for life as well as preparing you for work.
Your job may not require any general education, but I believe that general education classes help to enrich your life in general. I think that is (almost) more important. I would really hate for my job and my life to become synonymous. Or, if they do, I hope I don't consider it a "job" anymore.
10:37 AM
I love the common fallacy of well rounded education or the enhancements these classes make to ones life post graduation. Only 33% or so of Americans receive a bachelor’s degree and of those only 5-10% receives MBA and of those 3% receives Doctorates. So what you are telling me is the majority of Americans are not in well rounded? I do no not think these classes “prepare me for life and the post graduation experience”.
I have encountered some interesting and bright people who do not have college educations and I feel they are no different from people that have attended college. The point is from our experience the majority of gen-ed classes are useless just a good waste of time and for the majority of professors teaching the class do a poor job
I don’t buy that taking “Racket Sports” or “intro to computers” makes me a well rounded person. It’s a waste of my time and money. I could continue to list classes and why but I believe you understand my point. What it comes down to is a person who is motivated to exceed in the areas around him\her. Personally I believe most of these classes should be taught in K-12 *oh wait they are and college should be more focused on core classes.
1:13 PM
Your job may not require any general education, but I believe that general education classes help to enrich your life in general.
The purpose of college isn't to enrich your life or teach you life's lessons! It's about learning to be successful in your field. I mean, if I wanted to be enriched, I would join a Drama Club and volunteer at the retirement home. I'm sorry, but I go to college to learn about the concepts and methods of my field. What I don't go to college for is paying $500 for a PE class...the same one I took in high school. Or paying the same amount for having the same history lessons spoken back to me...again, the same stuff I learned in high school.
College is about focusing your knowledge and abilities on your field. Why do you think you have to put down something in the "Major" field on your college application? You don't major or minor with anything in high school...which ironically is the same place where you take gen ed classes! See where I'm going with this?
(Gen Ed) + (Figure out what you want to do) = High School
Learn about what you want to do = College
If you add Gen Ed to the second equation, you achieve the result of "High School".
4:31 PM
In order to argue either side of the liberal arts courses being required undergraduate curriculum debate, it is necessary to understand what the nature and history of the degree being conferred are. Head over to the Mundt and conduct some research, or at least visit the Wikipedia!
Associate’s degrees generally focus on the technical aspects of a field and lack a liberal arts requirement. In contrast to associate’s degrees which produce people with the skills to complete a task today; bachelor’s degrees produce people who not only can apply their skills to complete tasks today, but also because of their increased ability to apply their knowledge to problems in multiple subjects can quickly retool in order to complete any task in the future. It is the responsibility of every baccalaureate awarding institution to strive to accomplish what Dr. Knowlton stated, "Dakota State University is not in the business of training technicians – it is about educating technologists."
If there is still some doubt to the importance of liberal arts courses in a B.A. or B.S. degree, as you graduate with one of these degrees and start hunting for jobs, compare yourself to someone with a degree with less distinction. Why should an employer hire you over someone with an associate’s degree?
12:56 AM
I agree that gen eds are a good thing. What do you think you've been doing all the rest of your educational career? You didn't have a major in elementary school, right? If students don't want to be enlightened to the ways of the world or become a well-rounded individual, then enroll in a technical or community college, please. It's disheartening to hear someone not be proud of the education they are receiving or have received. I, for one, am glad to be going to a liberal arts school. That's why I chose it.
12:59 PM
Oh and another thing, about the negative comment-filtering, etc. if each student knew Dr. Knowlton at all... honestly, they wouldn't find the need to say negative comments like that. Or be ashamed to say their real name.
1:18 PM
I think some of you are missing some points of general education classes. With the math area, like college algebra, you aren't just learning the formulas, you're learning the stream of logic that goes into it. Unless you live under a rock, you'll know that a lot of logical thinking goes into programming. I'm not even a computer science major and realize that math has helped me. All the writing classes that I have taken have provided me with a solid basis for writing speeches, papers, reports, etc that I quite possibly face in my career.
Another use of general education classes, that most people don't think about, is time filler until you decide on a major. It gives you something to occupy your time, and possibly help you decide on a career. Say you ended up really liking your writing class and excelled in it. It very well may shape what you do.
These are all examples of course.
3:28 PM
After reading the responses to this particular entry, I was motivated to respond. I hope you all will not mind if a faculty member throws his two cents worth in, and please don’t feel uncomfortable about it. In fact, I am hoping this will elicit some responses and foster further debate as this is the cornerstone of higher education.
To address the question of the importance of general education courses, the first thing that pops into my mind is the difference between a technical degree and a Bachelor’s degree. The answer must lay in general education. If all you want is to learn how to perform the mundane tasks associated with any given profession, then a technical school is indeed sufficient to meet your needs, but what do employers expect our of their employees? When a problem comes along that goes beyond the simple mundane routine, it’s not the person with the technical degree they will go to, but rather, the person with the Bachelor’s degree. The reason is simply this; with a Bachelor’s degree comes additional training in critical thinking skills, communication, and problem solving above and beyond their own field of expertise.
I have a good friend, Kosta, who is a semi-retired physicist at MIT. When I was a student, he made a comment to me that I will never forget: “Having a degree is not a privilege, honor or a right, but it is a responsibility, because it makes you a leader in the community.” Vincent Vega writes “[o]nly 33% or so of Americans receive a bachelor’s degree and of those only 5-10% receives MBA and of those 3% receives Doctorates.” I do not know if these statistics are correct, but I do know I have heard similar statistics from other sources. What does this really mean? With a Bachelor’s degree alone, you are already in the top third of our community; you are a leader. On a daily basis, this probably means very little, but when people have questions or when problems arise, you will be the one that they will go to for answers.
Being a leader also has implications on knowledge. As a community leader, you will be expected to know things beyond your own area of expertise. It’s a fairly common thing, even when you are in college, to have somebody ask “You’re in college, what do you think about…” Maybe their question is health related (“should I have a doctor look at this?”), or current events (“how does one president have the authority to scrap the Salt II treaty, effectively undoing the work of all administrations before him starting with Carter?”) or something very personal to them (“I don’t suppose you know anything about fixing the computer on a tractor?”) It is incredibly uncomfortable to face questions like this without even an idea of what the question is about. All of a sudden, being a community leader becomes a significant burden (“well I could’ve said ‘I don’t know’ and I didn’t have to go to college for it!”)
General education, and several other opportunities (many of which are offered only at college) will prepare you to be a leader in the community. You can choose any given area of general education, and justify its need, even if it is not directly applicable to your area of interest. English will prepare you to communicate your ideas professionally (ain’t nobody gonna listen to noboby nohow if they ain’t talking no good English); social studies help you to expand your view to a world much larger than your own, humanities provide you with the cultural background to supplement your communication, mathematics provides structure of thought, and science teaches critical thinking and problem solving skills. In addition, campus events provide the opportunity to experience various cultures, to be exposed to various forms of artistic expression, or to hear debates on the issues of your time. If you do not take advantage of these opportunities (and others; for instance, when was the last time you read a newspaper that originated outside of South Dakota, like the New York Times [www.nytimes.com] or the Washington Post [www.washingtonpost.com]?), then you are throwing away a large portion of your educational opportunities. These experiences, good, bad or indifferent, will no longer be available once you graduate, so while you are here, take the time to learn about subjects outside of your field, to participate in campus activities, to learn the difference between actual debate based on your own critical thinking, and mimicking.
The second thing I would like to address is a comment by Michele Hughes (and, by the way, congratulations to you and others who have the courage to put your name and to actually stand by your comments) who writes “the new Scientific Forensics Technology major here at DSU, can you believe, does not teach fingerprinting, (how to tell one print from another), or gathering crime scene evidence, (I am pretty sure that that is involved in forensics), or what are you supposed to do with the evidence once it is gathered, and what about using the different machines and tests to process the evidence.” I have no idea where you found your information, but let me assure you, it is most definitely incorrect. The forensic science program does cover all of those topics, and much more.
Before we get too far into the forensic science major, let me first explain about forensic science programs. See, there are many different facets and focuses of forensic science; in fact, you can pick any field and make a case for including it in a forensic science program (why, exactly, does the perp play Mendelssohn’s “Hebrides” while performing these actions?), but there are definitely fields that are more common in criminal investigations than others. However, even these limited fields are so diverse that it is impossible for any single forensic science program to cover all of these major topics. Thus, each forensic science program focuses on one specific area of interest or expertise.
Technical schools tend to focus only on the beginning of the investigation. It is the police department who actually tends to take the fingerprints, collect physical evidence, photograph the scene, deal with crowd control and so forth. This is not the focus of the forensic science program here at DSU, but we do cover all of these none the less in our “Forensic Seminar” series. Here you will have the opportunity to collect evidence at mock crime scenes, take fingerprints, catalog the evidence, secure the area and the evidence, and so forth. You will not be experts at this because it is not our focus, but we include it because we want our students to have an idea of the entire sequence of events for any given crime.
What our Forensic Science program does cover, and focus on, is what to do with the evidence once it is collected. This can be broken down into two categories, which, taken together, makes the DSU program unique in the nation, because ours is the only program that combines chemistry with physics. Most programs are just chemistry, or perhaps chemistry and biology, and this difference has been favorably noted by professionals in the field, at forensic crime labs, and by individuals at the National Institute of Justice.
The chemistry deals with actual analysis of the collected evidence. This does include actual hands-on experience with the same type of instrumentation used in professional crime labs (the gas chromatograph, the Infra Red spectrophotometer, the Fluorimeter and more). The students won’t start with this instrumentation; they need to know the basics of chemistry before they can reach the advanced materials so they understand what the instrument is doing (recall the difference between a Bachelor’s degree and a technical degree). This means students will start in the very generic general chemistry course and build from there. Because of this additional training, students will better understand what the instruments are doing, and therefore will be better able to decide when and where these instruments might be appropriate for use for non-routine tests.
Physics (and mathematics) puts together the ability of the students to actually go to the scene and determine the sequence of events. If there is a collision, it is the vector analysis you learn in physics, mechanics and calculus that allows you to determine the initial velocities of both vehicles based on where they stopped. Between the chemistry to determine how the physical evidence matches up, and the physics to determine what actually happened, our forensic science program is very strong in hands on analysis. Of course, that’s not the end; we also need to express our findings to others (clients, juries, judges).
The final major component of the forensic science program is graphics, which not only improves ones eye for clues at a scene, but also is a great tool for presenting findings. Graphic animations are becoming more commonly used in courts because they are a powerful and simple means to visualize a sequence of events. Graphics is also where we look specifically at fingerprint analysis. We also cover, through the seminars, how to make presentations to a court as an expert witness, legal ethics, study case files, and more.
About the only thing that is not in the DSU forensic science program is biological analysis. We left this out of the forensic science program because of advice we received from experts in the various fields of criminology while we were developing the program who said that they have all of the biology experts they need, but they have a hard time finding anybody trained in the physical sciences. Even without this direct component, we do cover biochemical aspects of criminology such as DNA evidence, replication, analysis and other biological aspects in biochemistry. We only touch on these subjects because, again, it is not the focus of the forensic science program. However, if anybody is interested in the biological aspects of criminology (or any other area of expertise), the forensic science program does include a generous amount of elective credits to allow the student to tailor their educational experience in any way they find of most interest.
My apologies for the length of this blog response, but I hope I have given everybody something to think about with regards to the significance of general education, to respond to, and perhaps corrected a misperception or two.
6:04 PM
“With a Bachelor’s degree alone, you are already in the top third of our community; you are a leader” how can you say this with a straight face? Would you say that some one with a poor GPA is a leader or that took them 6 ½ years to graduate and then turns around to teach High School? Just because some one graduates doesn’t means you put them above people with no college education. We do have some great autodidacts who have done very well. Becoming a leader is not because someone went to college, it comes from within a person who is motivated to do so. I stated above that not all classes are needed, IE Racket sports or my art class and others. I’m not saying don’t teach gen-ed classes, what I am saying is not all gen-ed classes need to be taught in a higher education arena.
Personally I think higher education should be very rigorous, more so than the current standards. College is not tough as it stands; if we want to be competitive on a global scale, academia needs to think of those gen-ed/core classes and revamp the current status.
“Another use of general education classes, that most people don't think about, is time filler until you decide on a major. It gives you something to occupy your time,” Another use, why not just take my money while occupying my time!
I will not put my name on these posts because I have something to loose. Posting with my name could upset certain Faculty/Staff. I have a good standing with many people at DSU and I do not wish to "rock the boat" these are my views and if I choose to be anonymous so be it.
::Higher Education - Not::
george washington
richard branson
henry ford
thomas edison
mark twain
colonel sanders
bill gates
abe lincoln
ernest hemmingway
ben franklin
2:13 PM
"When a problem comes along that goes beyond the simple mundane routine, it’s not the person with the technical degree they will go to, but rather, the person with the Bachelor’s degree. The reason is simply this; with a Bachelor’s degree comes additional training in critical thinking skills, communication, and problem solving above and beyond their own field of expertise."
I fail to see how this is an argument for the continuance of gen-ed courses. If anything, it proves the point that we should be focusing more on methods and practices WITHIN the field, rather than expanding our inventory of non or seldom-used tidbits of information. I currently work with several other software engineers (some with Bachelors, some with Associates), and you can tell that the engineers with a Bachelors can do things quicker, better, and more efficiently (in comparison). Not because they took Chemistry. Not because they took an art appreciation course. It's because they studied the methods of their field and understand how to apply them in different circumstances.
The "Associates" engineers (I hate to use that word because they provide a very lackluster performance) complete approximately 1/2 the work of the Bachelors, and often need guidance on how to perform more difficult concepts.
But the odd thing is, when you compare the Associate's degrees with the Bachelor's degrees, and take away the "programming experience" from both, you're left with 2 items that the Associate's degree doesn't have: gen-ed's and advanced concepts. Does that mean if an Associate's degree holder were to take the exact same gen-ed classes as the Bachelors graduate, they would be equal in skill and ability? Certainly not!
The item that sets a Bachelor's degree apart from a technical or Associate's degree, is advanced concepts [read as: focusing their education on materials WITHIN their field]. Each one of us has the ability to learn the meanings behind Plato's words, or how Napolean's strategies were so effective. But learning those things won't set us apart from the rest of the world...and that's really why we get college degrees! I got my degrees so that I could do something that not everyone else in the world could.
If you're still having trouble believing me, find someone on the street that doesn't have a college education and ask them who two people are: Pavlov, and Turing. Or Michelangelo and Tovalds. Chances are more "uneducated" people know about Pavlov and Michelangelo. So why should the apparently pre-educated students be inundated with knowledge they seem to already have!?
5:33 PM
As a freshmen at Dakota State University, I can understand the uproar about gen-ed classes. However, I also understand the importance of them. For instance, I'm currently taking a wellness course. At first I thought it would be a waste of my time, but as the first week passed, and I read a chapter or two out of the book, I realized I could use the information. The class may be required and not a part of my major, but the things I learn are important for my everyday life. Why wouldn't I want to be a healthier person? Why wouldn't I want to learn how to use a computer (intro to computers)? I may hate programming with a passion, but I understand that employers want someone who has that kind of experience. I had an arguement with a friend about the importance of a composition class. He thought it wasn't important, but I realized the importance of knowing excellent grammar (even if I do not use it all the time) and knowing how to speak well in formal situations. General eds prepare us for the courses we are going to take that DO relate to our majors. I might complain about the fact that I had to take biology, but why would I want to go through life and NOT understand what's going on inside my body, or in the world around me? It seems rather important to me to have the "well-rounded" education, even though people might dispute the "well-rounded" phrase. I don't mind paying for something that makes ME feel like a better person.
My final comment will be, lets not judge how others view their education. If you didn't like it, oh well, but I feel and so do others, that it was/is important.
Hats off to Dr. Knowlton for this blog. I enjoyed the fact that you ignited a fire that got EVEN ME to post.
10:53 AM
sonje,
seems like most of those classes you mention to be so important you more than likely touched basis with in "high school". So if you didnt hold onto that information the first time around, what are the chances it's going to stick with you this time around? ...especially when you're paying a hefty bi-annual bill to re-learn what you should have held onto in the first place.
If you just want to 'feel' like a better person, I can help you out with that. But it will be alot cheaper than what you pay every 6 months at DSU.
12:53 PM
As an instructor of Algebra, I try to have my students, typicaly freshmen, understand that the primarily value of this material is "process" as opposed to "content" in terms of further sharpening their critical-thinking (problem-solving) skills. It is far easier for us to recognize our becoming familiar with new material than it is strengthening of our critical thinking (not unlike seeing ourselves in the mirror each morning and tending to not recognize incremental changes), yet such skill is essential to any endeavor. Mastering Algebra is only one contributor to such personal growth, but I believe it to be an important one.
10:49 AM
I started at DSU 5 years ago, and will graduate in May. I have lost count at how many times I have been listed with honors. You cannot put a time limit on college, nor can you make a correlation between years in and GPA’s. Some (I have known them) take 7 plus years. Others run college like a marathon and leave in 3 years. The ones who stayed 7 learned a lot more content and about life than those who ran the race in 3. I firmly believe gen. eds. have their place. If anything they help to weed out those who should not be here in the first place. I had my weak content areas coming to college, but I buckled down and now my weak areas are my strong areas, and for that I will always be indebted to those professors at DSU who made me work for my gen. ed. grades. So to those of you faculty members out there that taught me not only content in my gen. ed. classes, but life lesson like making lemonade with lemons, and never giving up. Thank You. Keep doing what your doing. It is making a difference to some of us.
3:07 PM
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